My Thoughts On The LC500

"PS9" (PS9) 01/13/2016 at 12:45 • Filed to: None

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The Design is exactly what you want to see from a new sports car on a new platform. A lot of people are divided on the design, which is a good thing. Division and conflict about the product will keep it in peoples mouths all the way to launch time. It has the best implementation of the still-bad predator face. The headlights and associated accents feel like I saw them in minority report somewhere (and that is a compliment) . The more I see it, the more I like it.

The LFAs V10 is not under the hood of this car, but it should have been. Failing that, they should have tried to meet the performance benchmark set by it. At $75k, it’s a pretty good deal. At $100k - a price bracket crowded with totally awesome offerings from other Brands which have pedigree - this car is down on value. That’s not where you want to be when launching a brand new platform in an extremely competitive bracket.

Let’s talk about the competition and cross shopping for a moment. Because the perception among enthusiasts in the ‘pro LC500' coulomb is that there isn’t any for this car. No. ‘People don’t cross shop X against Y’ is what you say when you don’t have the cash in hand ready to make a decision. Actual consumers and individuals who don’t read Jalopnik and aren’t enthusiasts will decide what this car competes with, and they’re going to cross shop whatever they want. Will it matter to them that the GT-R for the same money is way faster than this? I don’t know. I do know that the market is spoiled for choice in this bracket, and it will not balkanize itself around this particular car just because we enthusiasts like it a lot.

One major problem with this car though; it doesn’t actually fix Toyota’s image as a stodgy producer of boring beigemobiles. For every LC500 and GT86, you have the Camry, the Corolla, the Avalon, the Prius family, the Yaris, the Scion group and the All of Lexus’ lineup. One rich person’s halo car every decade or so cannot reverse the image that two whole brands worth of products generate every year. My advice here is to steal the same plan Ford stole from the Europeans; make good base cars that people will buy en masse and sport them up a bit. An AWD 375 HP Camry GT trim level for 2020 would do a lot more to change brand perception than building a [Whatever replaces the 918] competitor for $[Infinite] 20 years from now.

Final Thought: We can pretty much consider this to be a preview of what’s coming for the Supra. If you were hoping as I was for them to make something in the Camaro-Mustang-Challenger’s price bracket, well...

TheHondaBro > PS9 01/13/2016 at 12:51

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If the LC500 is the precursor to the MkV Supra, you can expect a massive price drop, as well as a smaller engine. Though I don’t think this is what it is, because the next Supra will be based on the next Z4 chassis, and the LC competes with the 6-series, a car much larger than the Z4.

As far as the MkV Supra, I predict the 3.5l V6 from the Camry with a turbo or two, RWD, and a Scion .

gin-san - shitpost specialist > PS9 01/13/2016 at 12:54

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As it was made clear to me in one of my comments about the 1LR-GUE, part of the appeal also comes from the Yamaha-tuned exhaust. If they can just capture the essence of that, I think not using the 1LR can be overlooked. Also, I’m sure that given the small quantities of 1LRs made, that it would be cost prohibitive given the segment (which I’m assuming is going to be in $100k territory).

Don’t get me wrong, I love the LFA and that V10, but I don’t think it’d be feasible at that price point. However, I dream of a LC500-F with the 1LR V10, perhaps it’s something that we’ll see in the future.

Either way, it would be tragic if that V10 only ever saw use in that limited-run of LFAs.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > PS9 01/13/2016 at 12:56

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I love the look of it inside and out from the pictures but realizing I am 12 years old mentally when it comes to cars sometimes makes this Lexus irrelevant now because GTR.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > TheHondaBro 01/13/2016 at 12:56

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Scion Supra? Death to Scion

PS9 > TheHondaBro 01/13/2016 at 13:01

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Don’t count on that price drop in any case. The LC is the third example of Toyota putting a huge premium on performance and sporty cars so far. They launched the GT86 at a few grand below $30k. The LFA was half a million. And now the LC has a $25k premium over the almost-as-fast base 6 Series. They just about want M6 money for base 6 worth of car.

Given all of that, I forsee a $75k-90k Supra regardless of what they make it with.

HammerheadFistpunch > PS9 01/13/2016 at 13:06

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I agree on all fronts.

Style - perfect

Engine - wrong choice, needs the 1LR-GUE (probably too expensive or too polluting)

Price - its a little high, but its a niche product that isn’t going to have volume so thats fine

Re: biege - They are trying to make them more interesting, but the truth is that beige sells to the fat part of the curve, so tread carefully. What Toyota should do is build Mazda’s well. The iM will be interesting to watch.

TheHondaBro > PS9 01/13/2016 at 13:22

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All of those examples are low-volume sellers. The people who are dead-set on a sports car/GT car/supercar will have a lot more than just enough to buy the cheapest one in the segment.

PS9 > TheHondaBro 01/13/2016 at 13:28

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That’s not the point, though. It’s not about how cheap it can be made; it’s about how much you can get for your money. Nobody likes to get bad value in exchange for their currency, be it for $1k $10k, $100k or $1M. You can almost get an M6 for what the LC will cost, and in a market crowded with awesome options to choose from, that’s a non-trivial problem.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > PS9 01/13/2016 at 13:30

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Yup. Still bad.

qbeezy > PS9 01/13/2016 at 14:05

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I agree with everything but the engine. If you put that LFA engine in the LC500 why have the LFA? You’d destroy its spot as the halo brand. Also I would raise the cost.

I believe it’s near 100k not solely for the engine, but it’s luxury as well. I didn’t see a spot on that interior that wasn’t covered in leather.

Rico > PS9 01/13/2016 at 14:13

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But for the people who love Toyotas it will be a no-brainer to drop $100k+ on this car even if they can get a 6 series for less or an M6 for just a bit more.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > PS9 01/13/2016 at 14:35

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The LFA V10 is a Yamaha engine, so we will never see it again. Unless the accountants get fired and Akio-san goes full Initial D, that engine will forever live in the LFA and nothing else.

How is Lexus current line-up that dull and boring anymore? The ES aside, all the current models share the same divisive styling, they sell two of the best off-road vehicles currently on sale in the US, and they are soon to offer us small, RWD, turbo-charged coupe and sedan in the RC/IS 200T models.

You’re right about the buyers picking what they cross-shop against the LC. It will be people who want for a fast, comfortable, luxurious, and reliable status symbol. The Germans can only offer that last point for as long as their cars are within the lease contract.

PS9 > qbeezy 01/13/2016 at 14:46

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The LFA has been out of production for 4 years at this point. It’s spot as the halo car has already been ‘destroyed’.

A V10 LC would be more expensive, but not that much more; The LFA was half a million not because of the engine necessarily, but because of all the bespoke machinery they used in making the whole car that they wouldn’t be using again after production ended. I’d much rather a $125-150k LC with a unique-to-the-segment V10 you can’t get anywhere else, and perfomance to match an R8. Now theres a halo car package worthy of the north-of-M6 premium they clearly want to charge for it.

PS9 > Rico 01/13/2016 at 14:58

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That alone isn’t going to cut the mustard if we’re looking to put Lexus on the map with the same folks who’ve been picking up CLs, 6s and every other $100k option in the market at this point (and we are. This isn’t going to be an ultra-low volume halo car that disappears in a year or so like the LFA was).

Getting the 5th place spot among cars in the 100k bracket next year would be a huge win for Lexus, but you aren’t going to do that by being undercut in value by BMW of all people. It’s not going to be good enough to give people who buy Toyota’s yet one more option to consider. You need people who’d never consider a Lexus to show up at the dealership for this thing, because 1) extremely competitive bracket serving people who don’t have to accept second best and 2) it’s in a segment of the market Toyota hasn’t served for over a decade.

Rico > PS9 01/13/2016 at 15:10

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I mean me personally, I would never buy this over an S Class Coupe. But if Lexus can have more standard features than the 6 or M6 it might be the smarter buy for those who choose Lexus over the other German 2 door powerhouses.

PS9 > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 01/13/2016 at 15:55

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It will be people who want for a fast, comfortable, luxurious, and reliable status symbol.

This right here shows that you do not understand the world people who buy $100k cars live in. For most of them, the LC won’t be a DD. It will be a second or third purchase, one they’ll have for maybe a year before heading down to the dealership and swapping it out for the new one. These people aren’t worried about plebeian concerns like ‘reliability’, because they don’t have to consider using the car for the whole of it’s life cycle before getting another. You want to know why ze germans don’t get hammered by their customers more for ‘reliability’? Because someone who can buy a car for $100k new is also completely protected from that portion of the ownership experience. That’s a problem the tavarish’s of the world have to worry about, and since they don’t buy new, it doesn’t make sense to build the long lasting luxury products they look for on craigslist anyway.

To someone like that, an Audi - fully warrantied for the term of the lease, or for as long as they have it - will be every bit as reliable as any Toyota for all of the 15k miles they end up putting on it before dumping it for the next new hotness. ‘Reliability’ is a selling point on a $15k corolla, not a $100k halo car like the LC.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > PS9 01/13/2016 at 15:58

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My apologies for being so poor and destitute, m’Lord.

You may commence with the floggings forthwith...

Quattro-luvr, Powered by Datsun & Stinger > PS9 01/13/2016 at 16:04

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I like the front much better than the RC-F. This area still bugs me though.

The back end looks much better too.

qbeezy > PS9 01/13/2016 at 16:58

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Eh, an out of production engine without knowing all the costs associated to get that engine into another car. Adding 25k would almost put it in another segment.

How long does a car sit as a”halo car “? 4 years ago isn’t that long ago. And an R8 is near a 1/4 of a price of an LFA. Thats not really a fair comparison